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American Idol Season 8 Vocal Masterclass Discussion For The Finale Featuring Top 2 Finalists Adam Lambert And Kris Allen.


Picture Courtesy Of AmericanIdol.Com

Picture Courtesy Of AmericanIdol.Com

Who will be crowned our next American Idol?  Ah, yes, therein lies the question and it’s a biggie. Will it be the theatrical rocker, Adam Lambert, or the subdued, acoustically driven stylist, Kris Allen?

According to DialIdol.Com, the race is an extremely close one and, in the final tally, it will come down to the power of text voting.

However, in an effort to make the two-hour telecast breeze by, tonight’s show will feature an array of established talent and some of these artists will be performing with our Top 4,  Adam, Kris, Danny and Allison.  Hopefully, the remainder of the Top 13 will have a chance to shine, as well.

Scheduled to perform on the show are: Lionel Richie, Keith Urban, KISS, David Bowie, Cyndi Lauper , Jason Mraz and Santana.

And, of course, last year’s winner, David Cook, will be front and center performing “Permanent“, one of the songs from his outstanding CD. What I would give to see and hear David Cook and Adam Lambert in concert. Ah well, a lady can dream, can’t she? Or is it a crystal ball prediction? Time will tell!

So, hold on to your seats everyone, as tonight’s show is going to be a thrilling ride, one that will lead us to the final big announcement from Ryan Seacrest: “The American Idol winner for Season 8 is……”.

I will have my Masterclass article online early tomorrow. And make sure you follow my Twitter updates !

 Enjoy the show!

Oh – and don’t forget to download the Top 13 performances on I-Tunes. And, while you are there, catch a couple of songs from one of my three CDs.

More updates will be added as they come in.

Copyright © 2008. MasterclassLady.Com. All rights reserved.


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About Masterclass Lady

Rosanne (Giallonardo) Simunovic began her musical career in Timmins, Ontario. She studied piano with Anne Pizzale and later, at an advanced level, with Soeur Anita Vaugeois (Sister Cecile of Les Soeurs De L’Assomption in Timmins). Her vocal and accompaniment skills were nurtured by her aunt, the late Dorothea Mascioli. When Rosanne graduated from O’Gorman High School, she moved on to the University of Toronto where she continued her piano and vocal studies while attaining a Bachelor of Arts Degree. She was hired as a piano accompanist for several musical companies, most notably, the National Ballet Of Canada. She presently holds an A.R.C.T. Teacher’s Diploma in Voice from the Royal Conservatory of Music in Toronto. Rosanne has studied choral conducting with numerous well known Canadian Conductors, including Wayne Riddell of Montreal, Quebec and the internationally renowned Dr. Elmer Iseler. She has been a founding member of numerous community-based arts organizations: the Timmins Arts Council, later known as Arts & Culture Timmins, the Timmins Symphony Orchestra, and, the Timmins Youth Singers…as well as the TYS Alumnus choir, the Timmins Concert Singers. In 1987, she was also selected to be the conductor of the Timmins Board Of Education Choir, comprised of talented students from Grades 5 to 8. In 1988, she was elected to the Board Of Directors of the Ontario Choral Federation (now known as Choirs Ontario), where she served as Chair of the Festivals Committee for six consecutive seasons. In 1996, in honour of the Ontario Choral Federation’s 25th Anniversary, Rosanne was selected as one of 25 recipients of the OCF’s Distinguished Service Award for outstanding contribution to the choral art. The ceremony was presided by Lieutenant Governor, Hal Jackman. In November 1997, Rosanne Simunovic was selected by the Rotary Club Of Timmins to receive the prestigious Paul Harris Award for her years of dedication to the artistic development of young musical talent in Timmins. In August of 2002, Rosanne Simunovic was selected by the Board Of Directors of Choirs Ontario to serve as Conductor of both the Provincial Junior and Teen Choir Camps, now renamed in honour of the Camp Benefactors, Don and Lillian Wright. In November 2002, Rosanne was the one of the recipients of the Commemorative Medal for the Golden Jubilee of Queen Elizabeth II, honouring her work in the development of the arts in Timmins. Under Rosanne Simunovic’s direction, the Timmins Youth Singers and the Timmins Concert Singers have been featured in numerous choral festivals and performing opportunities outside of Timmins. In 1985, they were selected to partici

87 Responses to “American Idol Season 8 Vocal Masterclass Discussion For The Finale Featuring Top 2 Finalists Adam Lambert And Kris Allen.”

  1. I missed the first round of songs last night, but I did see the remainder of the show. During the entire season, even up until yesterday evening, I thought Adam was a shoe-in, (even though I really love Kris). But after last night, I’m realizing that either one could actually win, and I am very excited for the roads that lie ahead of them both.

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  2. I’m not sure about the dialidol site. They showed that Shawn Johnson was 7 percentage points behind Gilles. She was in last place, according to them, but she won Dancing with the Stars! She and Gilles tied both Monday and Tuesday in judge’s scoring.

    Anyway, take a look at the zabasearch results. They said that Adam won by 14%, with over 100 million votes cast. I’m encouraged, being a real Adam fan.

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  3. Sorry, I didn’t get the Zabasearch link posted:

    http://www.zabasearch.com/ai_stats.php

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  4. I’m very excited for tonight’s results – even though I’m going to miss the show! :( I will have to tape it – I haven’t mastered the art of getting a DVR….

    It’s so hard to predict who is going to win. As much as I love Adam and hope wins, Kris was equally good last night.

    A colleague of mine and I were talking today and we both agreed on this: more people would buy Kris’ CD because it would be easier to listen too – easier in terms of relaxing, and soothing. Adam’s CD would probably be more “rockish”.

    I like to compare Adam to David Cook and Kris to David Archuleta. I love David Cook, but prefer to listen to Archie’s CD and music. It’s going to be tough. Either way, both will end up with some sort of recording contract!

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  5. Last correction – Zabasearch says Adam had 56% of the vote to Kris’ 44%, so there was a 12% difference.

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  6. none of them they all suck lol

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  7. I think the winner was very deserving…in fact, like they said, both guys deserved it.
    I didn’t like the judges reaction, though….was a little fishy to me.

    On the other hand; great show tonight! Thoroughly enjoyed it!

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  8. I’m so very sad. Kris is a great guy, but even Kris knew America got it wrong. So sweet of him to say Adam deserved it instead of him.

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  9. Kris Allen won!!!! HaHaHaHa. Everyone said Adam would win, but they were wrong!!!!….and I was right. Also I am so glad that Kris sang the winning song (No Boundaries) because that was not made for Adam at all…. Though, I still wanted Danny Gokey to win and I still belive him as this years Idol (or at least rightful 2nd place)! “!Congrats are due to Kris!”

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  10. Just dropping by to say farewell to everyone. It’s been such fun reading everyone’s posts. Congrats to Kris (he seems like a nice guy) – but this result is very, very wrong. Even he said Adam should have won. So sad.

    I most likely won’t be back next year.

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  11. The best thing about Kris’s win was the fact that the viewers voted for someone other than who TPTB had been promoting the entire season. The voting public made up their own minds!!! YEAH!!!!

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  12. Adam is an icon. Adam is and will continue to be huge. Winning a singing competition? Happy for Kris but Adam accomplished what he set out to do – to be noticed and on an International level. Mission accomplished.

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  13. TFLS,

    My sentiments exactly. Will not be watching Idol next year. America didn’t get it right! Simon knew it and Kris knew it.

    Adam, you are a class act!

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  14. MCL…You also are a class act! Thank you for this wonderful site, and thank you for your “getting Adam”.

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  15. Well I got the end of the show tonight and must say that I loved the Queen song – that was awesome!

    I’m happy that Kris won, but extremely sad that Adam lost. Althought, really, they both won tonight and this is just the beginning for big things to come for both of them!!!

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  16. I am officially in mourning.

    The consolation is that Adam stood out in a huge way tonight. What a STAR. When he sang Beth I was astonished. Superstar.

    You are right MCL. The world will embrace Adam and I believe he WILL belong to the world. I believe that he is going to be very very very successful, more so than any idol before him. I just hope he has a good lawyer and people who can look out for him.

    Maybe this is the best path for Adam. This kid lives without boundaries: Being the AI winner would have seriously restricted him. This kid needs to be free: He is at his best unbounded. I firmly believe that everything happens for a reason and that this is the best path for Adam.

    At the end of the day, everyone goes home including the winner. All these kids have when they leave is their talent. You don’t get more talent by winning a contest. You either have it or you don’t. Adam leaves with oodles of it.

    Season 8 will always belong to Adam for me. Always. Congratulations Adam. You are a star.

    Much love.

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  17. It was a terrific finale.

    I noticed no results numbers were given, so I bet it was close. Throughout the show, it was obvious who the most talented singer was. However, I think Kris did a nice job. He is the FIRST married Idol and it looks like he is a Daddy-to-be. Good for him!

    It was cute that Kris said he needed a new car. Such a sweet guy who will grow as an artist with time. He does personify what I have felt American Idol is: an undiscovered talent contest.

    Good luck to Kris and wishing the best for Adam!

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  18. No where was it more apparent than in the Queen song how much better of a singer Adam is than Kris. Adam owned that stage with Queen.

    Congrats to Kris and his fans, but I’m still very sad for Adam.

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  19. Please remember I was an Anoop fan from the beginning, but never have I denied the SPECIAL talent that Adam possesses. He is the most unique contestant to have ever appeared on the show! Yes, I believe he will be a star going way beyond making CDs and performing his songs.

    Without Adam, this would have been a very boring season. Oh, and if they have the “Judges’ Save” next year, I will NOT place one vote for any contestant. Why bother when it doesn’t count for one week?

    It has been a long season and not quite as enjoyable as Season 7.

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  20. Well, I have to say that Adam has made this my favorite season of all. I’m going to the AI concert in September, and I never would have done that if not for Adam. It’s sad that he didn’t win, but he’s already a star!

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  21. Thank you, Master Class Lady, for stating so succinctly and eloquently what I’ve felt all along – Adam will be a star on an international level, and he accomplished exactly what he set out to do.
    I can’t wait to see what the months and years ahead hold for this most gifted and loving man. Watching him perform tonight with KISS and Queen, I couldn’t help but feel that he felt so at home, so at ease with these Icons. He has given us one thrilling ride this season and I will treasure every second.

    To Kris and his fans, I offer my congratulations and best wishes. He’s a lovely and talented man and I wish him only the best.

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  22. Okay- so AT&T just released that Arkansas, Kris’ home state, pulled in 38 million votes. That is almost HALF of the total votes that came in. I think they released this for a reason and that is that regional voting gave Kris the win. I’ll bet if you remove Arkansas (and California for fairness), that Adam wins.

    Information like this is not released for no reason.

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  23. Season 8…. Boy, that makes you go “hmmmmmm”.

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  24. Season 8 –
    I don’t see how that’s even possible. Is At&T really the source? Arkansas has a population of 2,855,390 and Conway, where Kris is from, only has 20,000 people. How many cell phones did each person use to get this vote total? I’m a bit skeptical.

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  25. Northernbelle May 21, 2009 at 1:45 am

    I’ve never posted before but I am so sad tonight. I know that Adam will be a star but someknow I want him to know that now. Is there any way?

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  26. Mariah, I was wondering the same thing about the 38 million votes coming from Arkansas. As soon as I read that I looked up the population of the state and thought there’s no way.

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  27. I have to add. I’ve been reading this site for a while but have never posted! I LOVE this site!!

    I like both Kris and Adam but am a HUGE Adam fan. I think at least a million of his votes came from me!

    I loved his performance with KISS. He looked like he was having a great time! At home, that’s for sure.

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  28. There’s something I really need to say about the symbolism of an Adam win (please forgive the length – I tend to get a bit wordy when I’m riled). Symbols bear great societal importance. We rely on them as a species to convey connectivity; how we think and feel. Words become unnecessary. Communication with a glance. We are visual creatures after all. Adam represented the outré – society’s margins – a place he’d occupied most of his young life. He was the fat kid in school – into the arts. Oddball, unusual – definitely not mainstream. He was castigated for it – as all who march to that different drummer often are. Just watch his graduation video. There he is – that incredible voice soaring to heaven – and when the camera pans across the stage or into the audience – you see his classmates talking behind their hands and snickering. Adam was a joke.

    So here he is, 10 years later – a fabulous creature of his own design. That glorious voice honed to perfection. He was ready. But America was still in high school, still snickering behind their hands. Elect the gay kid class president? Not on your life! But more than that – more than rejecting someone so beautiful he made your heart ache – underlying the rejection was a truck load of fear. Why? Because Adam was a symbol; a great rainbow flag announcing America had changed. If Adam Lambert had won American Idol in spite of being gay and Jewish – then others who existed on society’s margins might try and step forward into the light as well. And we’d be forced to reckon with them – to take them seriously. That’s why this was important – why it went beyond one supremely talented performer. Adam Lambert would have won for all the disenfranchised. There’s your symbol. America’s first openly gay Idol.

    And Adam’s win would have been a legitimate one – not manufactured as some kind of comfit or an appeasement to silence loud voices. The man’s madly talented – a true superstar. Now I’m not saying Kris Allen isn’t talented, or under other circumstances (such as an Adamless Idol) wouldn’t deserve the win. He is; truly – he just doesn’t compare to Adam. No one on that stage did. Adam was and is in a class by himself. So his not winning (despite all that talent), points to other things – especially when you look at all the fear-driven hysteria of the last few days. I’m not saying Bill O’Reilly’s hit piece was solely responsible; but when you couple it with all the other anti-gay, heavily political folderol that accompanied it – a pattern emerges. I live in the south. In my area – some local DJ’s exhorted listeners to not vote for the gay guy. They didn’t even mention Kris by name – just hated on Adam. Ever since his ‘Ring of Fire’ performance – Adam has been regularly dissed on local radio. From what I’ve heard – a few local churches spoke out against him as well. Danny Gokey’s pastor wasn’t the only preacher to bring religion into the mix. As many people voted against Adam as for Kris.

    So to all you Kris fans and supporters – please understand what this meant to many of us. Adam represented anyone whose felt disenfranchised. We really wanted to see him win – not just as fans – but because it would have stood for something. That’s added an extra layer of unhappiness. He lost for reasons other than singing.

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  29. TFLS- LOVE your post. You put so beautifully into words what many of us are feeling.

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  30. TFLS, yours is a very thought-provoking post and speaks many truths. I think it is important not to blame Kris for Adam’s loss. However, the factors you have mentioned did produce a win for Kris.

    When I saw O’Reilly’s show, I immediately thought there were going to be people voting that have never voted before. The pastor’s Twitter message also brought in other new voters.

    At this point in time, there is nothing AI can do to prevent bias and prejudice from entering the competition. Adam will receive his rewards in the end. He got noticed and now has an established fan base.

    Strange, but the third place winner did determine the final outcome of the show. I feel sorry for Kris and hope people won’t be cruel to him on the tour.

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  31. Well, AI can change its voting rules. It could limit the # of votes from each line. Of course, then they couldn’t say “record-breaking 100 million votes.” But it would make things more fair.

    Does anyone else think Simon’s not coming back next season. He had a sour-puss face on all night (I’m sure he knows the vote results before they’re announced). He looked disgusted with the entire thing. He’s said he wants to bring X-Factor to the U.S., something he’s contractually prohibited from doing as long as he’s on AI. With X, he’d have producer credit and more creative control, and I’ll bet he’s thinking Adam wouldn’t have lost if he’d been at the helm.

    Also, iTunes has “Is Anybody Listening?” by Adam in 10 Commandments available. Looks like 19E plans to promote him as heavily as Kris already.

    And, reportedly, Adam, Danny, and Allison all have record deals that just need signing.

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  32. I too hope Kris isn’t blamed. He did nothing to instigate or enhance what happened. I believe him to be exactly as he appears – a wonderful, caring human being. I certainly do not begrudge him his win. I’m just terribly disappointed in America – a feeling I don’t particularly like – but have experienced often of late. I want everybody should get along. I really don’t get bigotry. Seriously. It escapes me – always has. But here we are. It is what it is. Adam seems to be handling this OK. I only hope none of the haters show up while he’s on tour.

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  33. Oh, but TFLS, don’t you see Adam stands for something with or without the win! He is all of the things you say, and his symbol stands boldly and proudly for anyone willing to see it. In fact, it is because his symbol is so clear that he has aroused such fear in people who, at this point in their journey, can’t manage to deal with it in any other way. I feel sorry for them, trapped in their own hate, and not for Adam. He has behaved like a gentleman throughout this competition, without compromising who he is as an artist or an individual. He has acted with love to all. The example that he sets for all of us is the most powerful statement he could make, and for my money, a more powerful statement than his winning American Idol could ever be.

    He’s won the competition that matters. AI? It’s just a silly contest.

    Season 8, I agree – I do think that Adam, the artist, will be better off without being hamstrung by the American Idol title. And I think he knows that.

    Could he have looked any happier last night if he had won himself?

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  34. While I voted for Kris because I prefer his style of music over a lot of what Adam performed on Idol, I absolutely LOVED Adam’s performance of “Beth” last night. If only he had done more songs in a bit of a toned down style, perhaps it would have made a difference for him.

    First of all, I have to agree with those of you who write about how nice, gentle, etc. Adam is–as well as Kris. As far as I am concerned, there was NOTHING unlikeable–personalitywise–about any of the contestants this year. And Kris and Adam (and Danny!!!) seemed like especially kind, genuine people. So I don’t think that could have played a part in not voting for one over another. Only very occasionally would I read on a blog that someone thought Adam was “cocky” and thought he deserved to win. On the contrary, for as talented as Adam is and as “pimped” as he was, I think he always showed great humility.

    I’m sure there is some truth about the anti-gay ministers and Bill O’Reilly (can’t stand his kind of politics and never watch his show so I only know about that from reading about it here) influencing the vote to some extent, which is EXTREMELY unfortunate. I despise this kind of bigotry, but there were other reasons besides the gay issue not to vote for Adam. PLEASE do not forget that. Yesterday an Idol viewer I know–who coincidentally is a lesbian–told me that she is so “over Adam.” She thinks he is very talented, but Kris’s music was what she would listen to. With Adam’s voice, he had the capacity to sing music that would have had more appeal to the general public, but he chose not to do it. At the same time, he should have realized that it would cost him votes.

    My dislike of Adam’s version of “Change is Gonna Come” was because he couldn’t resist “Adamizing” it so intensely (and, yes, I’m sorry to say–the “tongue thing”). If he could have toned it down–JUST A LITTLE–it would have been GREAT! I agree that he was great singing with Queen last night and I suppose he was great singing with Kiss too, but I personally have always disliked Kiss.

    Someone compared Adam’s version of “Change is Gonna Come” to Patti LaBelle and I had actually thought of that myself. I’ve always loved watching Patti LaBelle on TV and think she is great, but never once have I been motivated to purchase her music. For me, I felt the same way about Adam. And I know that there are others who agree with me, so please do NOT blame Adam’s loss entirely on the anti-gay vote.

    For those of you who are so disappointed with Adam’s loss, I can relate because I felt the same way when Clay Aiken lost in Season 2. HOWEVER, he ended up selling more CDs than Rueben Studdard and actually made the cover of Rolling Stone. I am quite sure that Adam Lambert is going to be a STAR without the title of American Idol. In fact, I really think that title would have been a detriment to Adam.

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  35. MCL, I’m a huge Adam Fan. I’ve been really into AI these few months, because of Adam. These two days I woke up at 6:00am and watched the live show on internet (I’m from Hong Kong). I really hoped Adam could win, however, I was also kind of prepared for the worst. No offence to Americans, given the fact that George.W. Bush could be the US president for 8 years, who knows what would happen?

    MCL, I’m totally agreed with you that although Adam didn’t win the AI title, he has already completed his mission. As he said in interviews, he tried out for AI to seek more job opportunities. Now he has tons of chances waiting for him. If Adam comes to Hong Kong, I would definitely be the first one to line up for his concert. On the other hand, he’s already recognized by many superstars. To quote from one of my favorite singers, Robbie Williams,

    “Adam Lambert is my personal bestest Pop star right now…..If you haven’t been watching American Idol check him out… he’s the real deal in fact if there was a Singing Olympics and the US where sending Michael Buble and Adam Lambert i wouldn’t even try out for the UK team”

    What’s a compliment!

    BTW, MCL, would you pls comment on Adam’s performances tonight with Kiss and Queen?

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  36. Was just wataching on Good Morning America, Diane Said, ” There are two contests, the American Idol winner, and the Career Round winner”. Who has the most staying power?

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  37. Sorry…Watching! Spell Check Please!

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  38. Vonnie, I was watching the ‘Today Show’ and Meredith Vieira brought out the fact that Kris personifies what American Idol is all about. I had mentioned that Kris accomplished the “American Dream” and for that I am happy. I think vocal training will help him immensely.

    More than likely, Adam has staying power which will go beyond selling CDs.

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  39. cookiemonster May 21, 2009 at 7:59 am

    Good morning all!! I was in total shock last night as they announced the winner. I couldn’t believe it – especially after hearing Adam last night (I agree with the bloggers Beth and Queen had me in tears!! He is so amazing) I thought there is no way that he will come in second. I don’t think “America got it wrong” however – it was america who voted. They voted for their choice. Kris just wasn’t my choice. Having said that, I don’t dislike Kris and do believe he should have been in the top two. He was good last night, too – I loved how he sounded (and looked) with Keith Urban. I think America can identify a little more with Kris than with Adam – although I totally get who Adam is and I love him for it!!!! I am a teacher and my students and I have Idol chats everyday and it’s neat getting their 13/14 year old perspective. They (especially the girls) were 100% for Kris. So I wonder how many of the voters were young. And there are a lot of cool theories on here today about why Adam may have “lost” (although he didn’t really lose…) and I am not disagreeing with them but I have read and heard that many people just didn’t like the “screaming” and “falsetto” that permeates most of, if not all of Adam’s performances. I ahve heard that Kris would be “easier to listen to” than Adam. In any case, I absolutely LOVED last night’s show. What GREAT entertainment. I am sad that Alexis Grace will not be on tour. I want to go see the tour but wish that I was hearing 5 songs from Adam at the end of the show rather than Kris. Oh well. Congrats to Kris. And to Adam, I will follow your amazing career.
    Oh how can I write something without mentioning my David Cook??? He was amazing and he made me cry. My husband was watching me, watch him and told me how pathetic I was. It was especially touching because it was about his brother. David Cook will forever be my no 1 IDOL WINNER!!

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  40. cookiemonster May 21, 2009 at 8:00 am

    I must add that this will be the second day that I am late for work because of this site. Should I have words with MCL? I totally blame you and your bloggers. Ha!! Love you all

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  41. I was on another site and found this that someone had wrote about Adam:

    “It’s a Mad World.

    Adam, you’ve got a Whole Lotta Love and you can clearly see the Tracks of our Tears. We Can’t Get No Satisfaction! If We Can’t Have You, We Don’t Want Nobody, Baby. We’re not Feelin’ Good right this minute, we’re Cryin’. But things are never Black and White and we’re already deep in this Ring of Fire for you. You were Born to be Wild and believe One thing, A Change is Gonna Come.”

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  42. That’s cool, Vonnie!

    Does anyone else think Simon’s not coming back next season.

    Mariah, I use to think that American Idol could not survive without Simon. Now, I am not so sure. His attitude has produced some inaccurate critiques and he seems bored. With terrific contestants – all great singers, and with a cool replacement judge. Who knows?

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  43. This article from Wednesday’s Arkansas Democrat Gazette

    “In Conway after Tuesday’s performances, fans at the Estes Stadium watch party took out wireless phones and started making calls and firing off text messages – some voting on their own devices and others on phones borrowed from AT&T, which supplied about 50 display units and representatives to teach multiple “power texting.”

    AT&T also made about 30 phones available in a “texting zone” at a watch party at the Peabody Little Rock hotel, where Megan Lynch and friend Rainey Gibson, both 22, watched Allen perform his first song of the night, Bill Withers’ “Ain’t No Sunshine.”

    “I loved it,” Lynch said. “One of my favorite things about Kris is that he plays his own instruments. That just shows how talented he is.”

    Gibson, who said she would be voting nonstop, said Allen did an excellent job.

    A table of outlets and power cords was available at Estes Stadium for those whose batteries ran out of juice. One of them was UCA student Bill Coghlan, who admitted he didn’t actually watch the show, but was voting because “My friend told me to.”

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  44. CookieMonster wrote:

    I must add that this will be the second day that I am late for work because of this site. Should I have words with MCL? I totally blame you and your bloggers. Ha!! Love you all

    That’s what I’m here for – to wreak havoc and chaos on your private world! I could write a Masterclass note to your employer if you like? haha

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  45. I for one am affronted that people would even suggest that at this point in time Americans are still so hate-filled and bigoted that it would cause them to do everything in their power to make sure that an (allegedly) gay individual did not win American Idol. Are you kidding me? Am I really reading this? For goodness sakes then, let’s take back all the Oscars we have given gays and lesbians. I mean really, if we’re going to make sure we do everything in our power to stop an (allegedly) gay individual from winning Idol, we certainly should make sure we get those Oscars back, shouldn’t we? And while we’re at it, we should make sure we ruin the lives of all gay and lesbian celebrities, politicians, and whoever else might be gay just so that all we heterosexuals can rule the world and everyone it in just because we WANT to. And why; well I guess it’s because we have nothing better to do with our time.

    Where was all the hatred and bigotry some of you speak of when America voted in the first (half) African American President in November of 2008? Did it just magically disappear on the 4th of November only to resurface on the 19th of May when people were voting for whom they thought should be the next American Idol? God Lord, can we please stop all this? Can we please stop blaming some “group or affiliation” for what the outcome of American Idol was? Do you really think there was some evil plot by the majority of Americans to cast their votes for Kris Allen simply because they are Anti-Gay, or a religious individual, or they don’t like men who wear makeup? Do you not think the majority of Americans are more concerned about graver issues than who the winner of American Idol is? Do you really think the outcome of this show is SO important to SO many people of SO many backgrounds, who have problems SO much bigger than this, that they are going to sit by their phone diligently for 4 hours just to make sure they get in their five votes for Kris Allen because they simply won’t tolerate an Adam Lambert win? Yes, lets us, as Americans, all band together and figure out a way that we can make sure Kris Allen wins Idol instead of Adam Lambert winning Idol. Please everyone; can we not put things in their proper perspective here?

    From the beginning, this was Adam Lambert’s crown to lose. And he did. There are those of us here that have offered opinions as to why we thought that might be the way things would turn out, but almost everyone here who is an Adam Lambert fan never REALLY considered them. Many here thought we just “didn’t get it,” we were “too judgmental,” we had “no idea what we were talking about,” we had “no ear for music or no musical knowledge,” or we were somehow, “bigoted or biased.” No, we were none of things. We were objective. We all gave Adam Lambert all the credit he deserved for his stellar and exceptional vocal ability, but we expressed reservations about other things, and our opinions were often overlooked and disregard; or, they were met with harsh criticisms. In addition to the blatant disregard we were shown, many of us took our fair share of abuse from others for expressing those opinions, and we took it for a long time. And when we finally stood up and said we were not going to take it any more, there was such a backlash that WE were the ones who got reprimanded for not being nice to one another. Given this, it seems highly disingenuous to me that anyone here should be discussing fairness in any way, shape, or form.

    I said from the beginning, and I still maintain today, that if Adam Lambert did not win American Idol, the reasons for him not winning would be of his own doing. And they were. Don’t blame Americans for what Adam Lambert did to himself.

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  46. I’m posting this here because I don’t know if people are still active on the Top 2 Performance comments thread.

    I decided it was okay to divulge who Adam’s brother was talking about (and, thanks MCL for backing me up!). It’s in the comments section mentioned above.

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  47. Oh brother, how many Americans actually watch AI or even vote!!!

    This is a voting contest, and every year there is a winner of American Idol, but not every year is there a star.

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  48. First I want to say congrats to Kris. What a great artist and musician. I am an Adam fan and although I am disappointed that he did not win I do not blame Kris nor do I believe he won because people voted against Adam. I think that Kris just has a style that is appealing to a broader range of people.

    Adam did not lose. I believe that the measure of successful artist is not how many record or tickets they sell or how many awards (or contests) they win but how many hearts and lives they touch and how many minds they open. In this respect Adam has accomplished much in very short time. The fact that I am writing this right now is proof of that. I was one of the outcast all throught school. I eventually put up a wall that is still in place today. Everything I say and do is thought through too much because I am afraid of what others will think or say about it. Adam beat out thousands of others to reach the top 2 and did it while not hiding who he is. I have decided that I need to be more like that. So congratulations Adam on never sacrificing who you are and “thank you for the light.”

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  49. Cat – thank you for writing! I hope and pray that this cruel, biased outlook on what is and is not normal will fade away and that you are able to continue to live your life without restrictions – either physical or spiritual.

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  50. Mark my words – this is the beginning of the end of Simon’s association with American Idol.

    He looked as disgusted as I did throughout the show and when the winner was announced, he was extremely disillusioned.

    I am happy for Kris – he is a sweet, talented young man and deserved his placement in the Top 2 show.

    He will carry the AI title with grace and humility. I wish him the best of success in the music industry. We need more people like him in this business.

    However, it is so obvious that Adam is and was the star of this show – he looked like he truly belonged with KISS and Queen. I think both groups felt honored to be in Adam’s presence.

    Bring the X-Facor to America, Simon!

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  51. There is another point–Adam DID look and sound perfect with the legendary KISS and Queen. On the other hand–that coronation song, although he sang it much better than Kris on a technical level, did not fit Adam as well as it did Kris. For all the work Kris needs to do on his skills, he projects a deep sincerity that does suit that type of song. And since there are millions of people who watch and/or vote for the first time at the finale, that could have put Kris over the top without the need for conspiracy theories.

    Personally, I don’t enjoy the KISS/Queen/hard rock style–but I can’t imagine that anyone can watch and listen to Adam perform and not realize that he is going to have a wonderful career, of his own making.

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  52. skid, while I appreciate your optimistic view of the world, the reality is that there were indeed many groups of people voting solely to keep Adam from winning the title. Unfortunately it is easier to motivate people to fight against something rather than for something. One only has to look at the relatively liberal state of California and Proposition 8.

    I do agree with you that Adam also contributed to his loss. He needed another Tracks Of My Tears or Mad World near the end of the show. It never came. His performances of One and A Change Is Gonna Come could have been showstoppers, lauded across the board, but the vocal arrangement was not good enough. For some reason he has done away with his “musical theater voice”, which is sad because that is what attracted some of his most devoted fans in the first place. He now sings almost exclusively in what I call his “glam rock voice” which involves some raspiness particularly in the higher registers.

    But performances aside, in many people’s eyes this was a battle between a happily married, wholesome Christian and a flaming drag queen. In the US, most parts of the world actually, the first will be at an advantage.

    In the end, we should remember Adam’s post-finale thoughts where he said it was their goal to bring people together, and not separate them. It was probably too much to ask of America, but I appreciate their noble intent and am very happy for the both of them and what they have achieved.

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  53. I have a whole essay’s worth of why I think Kris won and Adam lost, and I’ll get to that later. Heh. But right now I did want to point out something about the 38-million-votes-from-Arkansas thing: the original news story with that tidbit of information said that 38 million calls were made to American Idol numbers from Arkansas. Not that 38 million actual votes were tallied from AR, and not that 38 million votes were cast specifically to Kris from AR. To break it down:

    – If 38 million votes were actually tallied from AR, that means the rest of the country only cast 60 million votes or so. Does that really sound plausible to anybody on finale night with a 4-hour voting window? During the finale the voting totals are usually tripled from what you see during the middle of the season.
    – Phone lines for both contests were universally jammed last night all over the country. I tried voting for both guys for an hour and got maybe 10 votes through the entire time. So 38 million votes from one state? No way. 38 million ATTEMPTS, yes. And I’m willing to bet that a majority of those attempts got a busy signal.
    – Not all of those 38M voting attempts were for Kris.

    So… I sincerely doubt that a home-state voting frenzy is what put Kris over the top last night.

    Okay, just wanted to get that out of the way. I spend WAY too much time thinking about these things. Heh.

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  54. I would venture to say that the majority of that 38 million was not by picking up the phone and dialing but rather by texting. AT&T provided Go Phones to people and even taught them how to vote at Kris’ homecoming. One person can get in as high as 10,000 votes by texting.

    But yet, I am hearing there was many glitches with texting too – confirmations never received regarding whether their texts were received or confirmation received the next day after votes would have been tallied. Sounds like a mess.

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  55. Erin, it can be easily accomplished via text voting. 38 million votes is not impossible. If 40,000 people put in 95 votes each you get 38 million votes. Kris was being widely publicized in Arkansas and people there were encouraged to vote multiple times. The numbers are not impossible.

    It is also true that we don’t know if all of the votes were for kris, but it is likely that they were. When you have a statistical outliar like this there is usually a reason- in this case the numbers got inflated by overwhelming support for Kris. I would be willing to bet that if you remove Arkansas from the equation, that Adam wins. Adam sold the most on Itunes so he was clearly the fan favourite.

    If you take the numbers further, and assume that Kris got 28 million of the votes from Arkansas (with Adam getting 10m- being generous here…doubt adam even got even a million from Arkansas- then Adam would need to have 72% of the votes across the rest of the country just to finish with 51% of the votes. It would be an extremely difficult feat for any competitor.

    I think the real story here is the votes from Arkansas. And here I thought regional voting was only a factor in Canada!

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  56. Actually, now the news station that originally reported that hard-to-believe number is retracting the story:

    “‘AT&T is denying that 38 million votes came in from’Arkansas,’ Fox’s KLRT-TV affiliate in Little Rock, Arkansas reported in an revised report late Thursday morning. ‘They are not sure where that number originated from.'”

    So yeah, it’s sounding like an unfounded rumor that somehow took hold in the media.

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  57. It just goes to show that the voting system is really, really flawed. The fact that Adam did not win this competition is ridiculous. However, off he goes into the International spotlight without the win, so who cares? And, by ‘losing’ he gets even more publicity. Gotta love the media!

    Kris needed this win and I hope that AI treats him well and give him the publicity he so deserves. He really is going to need their support from here on in.

    He was clearly the best singer in this competition and one of the best that we have ever seen.

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  58. Iloveidol: “It would be an extremely difficult feat for any competitor.”

    You are so right. Then you factor in many other things, what a mountain Adam had to climb. I am so proud of him to make it to 2nd. I really never thought he would make it that far and don’t believe he did either.

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  59. ILoveIdol – Even ignoring the fact that the station that “broke” the news has now retracted the story and AT&T doesn’t even know where that number came from, I think it’s more difficult to believe that the other 300 million people in the U.S. outside of Arkansas only cast 60 million votes. On a finale night?! No way.

    Look at it this way: Adam has a LOT of die-hard, power-voting-for-four-hours fans. I think he inspires more “rabid” fandom than Kris does, anyway, but that’s pure conjecture on my part. But to take what you said, if there are only 40,000 of those people in a country of 305 million and they each cast, say, 100 votes? (See what I’m getting at here?)

    That’s why the whole story seemed ridiculous to me in the first place, and I’m glad it was retracted as being completely unfounded. I’d raise a big fat eyebrow at such a story for ANY contestant, unless it was something like Melinda Doolittle vs. Bikini Girl, y’know?

    I’m just trying to head off conspiracy theories because even AT&T is saying, “Uh, no.”

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  60. *smacks hand to forehead* Actually, 40,000 people voting 100 times apiece would be 4 million votes, not 40 million. And so 40,000 people casting 95 votes apiece would only be 3.8 million.

    I used to be good at math, I promise. LOL.

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  61. Last night’s finale ratings were down from last season:

    Fox’s “American Idol” wrapped its eighth season with huge numbers Wednesday night, although the music megahit was down more than 10% in demos vs. last year and is expected to come in with its lowest in-season finale ratings to date. The preliminary numbers are a bit murky due to the show’s irregular running time (8-10:07 p.m.), but “Idol” likely averaged about 29 million viewers, off from last year’s 31.7 million.

    Even in a slightly depressed state, however, the “Idol” finale — in which 23-year-old Arkansas native Kris Allen was revealed as the winner — was easily the top-rated program of the May sweep. It also drew roughly three times the demo score of the next highest-rated program on Wednesday, the season finale of “Criminal Minds” on CBS.

    For fun, Seasons 5 and 6:

    Season 6 – 30.7 million
    Season 5 – 36.3 million

    Wonder how many of those 29 million voted?

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  62. With all due respect, skip, I take great exception to your comments. I have made it a point NOT to get into any speculation about any cultural or social agendas regarding this season of Idol. I have also emphatically rejected conspiracies outright. I also do not think that Adam fans on this site have tried to character assassinate those who like other contestants. There is a difference between having a lively, spirited, intense discussion as opposed to just hurling insults at someone. While things have gotten heated at times, this site has remained a haven in the hostile wilderness that is the internet.

    I have been on other forums and blog sites and I can tell you that the hateful words are flying fast and furious. It’s appalling and unfortunate. I made a promise to myself that I would never participate in such talk. I have kept my promise on this site and any others in which I have chosen to participate.

    This is the first time I have posted here since Adam lost. I wanted to take some time to deal with my emotions and just kind of process it. Of course, I was disappointed. Adam has inspired me like no one else in recent memory. He has awakened feelings of joy and happiness that I didn’t think I could feel at this difficult time in my life. I wanted to come here and share those feelings, not pass judgement on those who did not necessarily feel the same way.

    My Mom called me to break the news. My sister didn’t want to be the one to tell me. She is a remarkable woman who has more strength, wisdom and courage than I will ever have. She tried to put it all in perspective. Of course, she was right as always. The world as I know it has not come to an end. This is not the apocalypse. It’s just the end of a talent show. Adam was gracious and generous in defeat, as I knew he would be. Kris was equally kind and decent in victory. I am happy that Adam has found an audience. Now he is known worldwide and his future lies ahead of him. I know that only great things are in store for him.

    I do not apologize for my unabashed adoration of Adam. He has moved me and touched me deeply. It is a thing of beauty. I treasure this experience. I am also able to understand why others liked their favorites as much as I liked Adam. Intolerance is not my thing, whether it’s about huge issues of consequence or merely about who should win a talent contest. I believed in Adam and think he deserved to win. That did not happen for a variety of reasons, which have already been discussed at length on this site. I choose not to dwell on his defeat, but to celebrate his victory in making it to the finale and becoming famous, admired and loved. He has touched millions with his incomparable voice and immense talent. I look forward to following him as he enters the next phase of his journey. I will be there every step of the way.

    Please do not paint all of Adam’s fans with the same brush. I consider myself a unique individual who can speak eloquently about my passion for someone like Adam, yet tolerate and respect those who disagree with me. I have tried to conduct myself with dignity and respect for others on this site.

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  63. Okay, this will be long. Here goes.

    I don’t think that Adam losing has anything to do with some kind of religious/anti-gay/whatever you want to call it conspiracy. I’ll agree with skid here in that this was Adam’s competition to lose, and this is why I think he lost it.

    Adam was my favorite at the start of the season. By the time “Tracks of My Tears” happened, I didn’t think there would be any way he wouldn’t win. I still think he’s fantastic and scarily talented and one of the best personalities to ever grace the Idol stage, but by the end of the season he wasn’t my favorite to take the title.

    Here’s the thing: I haven’t met a Kris fan who thinks that Kris is the more skilled vocalist of the final two. That would be insane. Adam’s got the bigger range, years of vocal training, and is the most technically proficient contestant I‘ve ever seen on this show. On that front, there’s no contest.

    Particularly what Adam can do in his higher register, his head voice, and all of that. I’ve defended Adam’s so-called “screaming” to a lot of people this whole season (not here, obviously). Pretty much every time that defense looked something like this: “That is not screaming. He’s using head voice and a lot of volume, but it’s not a scream. It’s a sound singing technique, it’s extremely difficult to do, and he’s a master at it. It’s fine if it‘s not your cup of tea, but don’t call it talent-less screaming because it‘s anything but.” That last sentence there is the key.

    Even when I could get someone to concede the point, this part of it still remains: they just flat-out don’t like how it sounds. It’s very much a love-it-or-hate it thing, and a lot of people…. don’t love it. So even if they agree on the point of Adam’s technical skill, why on earth would they vote for something they don’t even enjoy listening to? I mean, I could hear the world’s most gifted soprano opera singer and say, “Wow, she’s good,” but I wouldn’t actually enjoy it because I just don’t like opera. I acknowledge the skill, but I wouldn’t be seeing the concert or buying the album.

    So on that front alone, Adam loses a lot of votes. Not everyone enjoys the high-register wailing that he is so good at. If they did, Bruce Dickinson would be a household name.

    But here‘s the thing: I love the crazy head-voice thing that Adam can do. Two of my favorite singers on the planet do it all the time (Chris Cornell and somebody else that nobody’s ever heard of. LOL.) There’s a big “but” on the end of that, though: I enjoy it when I feel like the song calls for it. And this is my biggest, and probably only, criticism of Adam: I think he often overdoes it on songs that don‘t need it, so much so that it can ruin an entire performance for me. And unfortunately for him, I felt like he overdid it way too much towards the end of the season.

    For a string of performances mid-season, Adam was great at alternating ballads with songs that he could vocally go nuts on. If you didn’t like him one week, odds are you WOULD like him the next. But on Top 3 night, I thought his performance of “One” was an absolute mess. And this is coming from someone who was thrilled when I found out he’d be singing it. It was the perfect opportunity for him to do something restrained before going all-out on “Cryin’,” but…. I’m sorry, the second half of “One” just sounded wrong to me. I didn’t feel like it fit the song, and I’m not the only one. As I said, I love the rock wailing, but NOT on that song. I felt like he did the same thing to “A Change Is Gonna Come” the next week, when I felt like singing it straight would have been a lot more effective.

    So for the people who already don’t like the wailing, it was, “Oh god, more screaming again.” For people like me, it was, “PLEASE tone it down! That song doesn’t need it!” Just because he CAN do something with his voice doesn’t always mean that he SHOULD, you know? I liken it to when a singer uses too many riffs and runs (hi, Matt!) Great in moderation, but it gets awfully tiring to listen to if they do it too much.

    So yeah, that’s what I think Adam’s biggest issue is. He has every tool a vocalist could ever want. He just sometimes uses them in a way that makes me cringe, and he did so a lot as the competition came to a close and it mattered the most. In my opinion, “Whole Lotta Love” (my favorite performance of his) was the last time he got it exactly right.

    And this is where I think skid’s frustration is coming from (I don’t want to put words in your mouth, skid, so if I’m reading you wrong please correct me). Sometimes I feel like I’m banging my head against a wall with some (not all) of Adam’s fans, because no matter how many times say… well, pretty much everything I’ve just said, we still get the, “It’s ridiculous that he didn’t win. He’s the best singer ever on this show.” I take issue with the phrase “best singer,” because to me that implies so much more than just technical ability, but “most skilled vocalist”? Yes. But it feels like no matter how many times people say, “I don’t like it, and here’s why,” the WHY of it gets completely ignored.

    So I think what skid was trying to say is that a lot of Adam fans won’t even concede, “I disagree, but I can at least understand why you like the other guy better.” A lot of people prefer Kris and have completely valid reasons for doing so, so I don’t understand how Kris winning is some sort of miscarriage of justice. I’ll try and address Kris later, but this post is long enough already.

    And even though I tried to word all of this carefully, I would like to tack a big fat “In My Opinion” on the end of this. :)

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  64. This is in reference to any number of posts related to different articles, but I want to address Skid’s comments in particular.

    I both agree with you and feel the exasperation behind your writing. But I would like to say two things:

    One is: my very conservative sister pointed out to this lifelong liberal a few years ago that liberals tend to get stridently angry about matters politic. I was terribly offended and thought, “Well, that’s what I always say about conservatives!” In the intervening years, after much thought, I have come to the following conclusion.

    We liberals need to be very careful about assuming that we are so “different” from the conservatives we love to bash. Conservatives do NOT have a corner on making stereotypical, blanket assessments of groups, with a complete disregard of the wonderful diversity that one always finds in these groups. (I assure you that there are many Evangelicals who believe in hating the sin, but loving the sinner, and to whom it would never occur to vote against a potentially gay singing contestant just because of their sexual preference.) I also don’t think that they have a corner on assuming the worst possible motivation for someone’s actions rather than accepting the obvious and usually benign explanation, because human beings seem instinctually to want to demonize someone else in order to be pleased as punch that they have the higher moral ground.

    This was a hard lesson to learn from a woman I disagree with about so many issues, but I am grateful that she had the courage to point it out to me.

    If I look around the universe, I find no evidence that God – and I am deeply serious about my faith, although I am not an Evangelical – likes any sort of sameness. On the contrary, he seems to love diversity. Why are there so many colors? Why are there so many hundreds of unknown sea creatures living at the bottom of the ocean? Why are there no two snowflakes that are alike? Why so many different kinds of grasses, or flowers? Why do human beings and dogs come in so many different shapes and sizes?

    Perhaps, as Adam said in his post-finale interview (and I am paraphrasing here), we should spend our time looking for what we have in common as human beings, rather than scrutinizing and judging what makes us different.

    Secondly, with regard to mariah’s comments about Neil’s thoughts: whether or not his comments are accurate, we would all probably do well to remember that how a savvy individual chooses to use the media to present his/her public image may or may not reflect reality (Hollywood history is riddled with stars with squeaky clean public images that bore no resemblence to the reality of their lives.) The fact that we feel we spend so much time with television “stars” does not mean that we really know who they are (especially when you combine this savvy or lack thereof with a producer’s editing prerogatives.)

    But what I really agree with Skid most about is: This was just a singing competition! If we find it difficult to view it in that light, how much of our anger/angst/frustration/etc. has to do with the singer we are fans of and how much of it has to do with our own ego? Adam doesn’t seem bothered in the least about his loss; why should his fans take it any harder than he does?

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  65. Thanks Erin. You’ve voiced my exact sentiments. I KNOW that Kris is by no means a better singer, but I enjoy listening to him more. Adam is a “wow” kind of singer…but too much of that is just what it is….TOO MUCH. “Tracks of MY Tears” was my favorite Adam song, I would’ve probably liked the wail if there would’ve been less of it.

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  66. Beautiful post, Jeanne.

    Thanks, Dede. I probably went overboard with my analysis there, but the simplest version is this: I enjoy Kris’ singing voice more than I enjoy Adam’s. It doesn’t mean Adam isn’t amazing. It just means that there’s a certain warmth to Kris’ tone that is more pleasing to my ears.

    There’s something about the quality of Kris’ voice that just gets me. The best description I’ve seen of it was this: “I love the cry in Kris’ voice.” Sounds like something Paula would say in one of her loopier moments, yeah, but it’s also EXACTLY it. There’s this emotional hitch in his vocals that I just adore and connect with. It’s kind of like… okay, Michael Stipe’s vocal on “Everybody Hurts”? It’s like that. Jeff Buckley had it, too. I have no idea if it’s an affect or just something that’s inherent in somebody’s voice. Either way: yes, please.

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  67. I am sorry, I just realized there is a typo in my previous post. It should be addressed to “skid”, not “skip”. I guess the late night voting and not sleeping too well after the results show is causing me to make mistakes.

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  68. To Erin, Jeanne, and Dede . . . thank you for much for your most recent posts. I’ve been trying to make the same points but you all do so much more eloquently than I.

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  69. Erin, wonderful post you wrote (the time stamp is 6:13 p.m. in my time zone)! I am so pressed for time right now (which is why I’ve beena bit scarce; I still have so many posts/replies I need to write!), but I think you hit the nail on the head with this issue in so many ways. The paragraph starting with “Even when I could get someone…” is so true. It really speaks on different aesthetic preferences. And I have so many more things to say, but some other time… =P

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  70. Erin…perfect comparisons…never occurred to me, but you are exactly right.

    The comments on some of the blogs this morning were quite disturbing. I understand disappointment, but there were some people crossing the line.(including vulgar accusations directed at Kris, that as a southerner, I found offensive)I don’t remember this level of animosity last year!(or maybe I just forgot)

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  71. MARIAH SAYS:, “I decided it was okay to divulge who Adam’s brother was talking about (and, thanks MCL for backing me up!). It’s in the comments section mentioned above.”

    Where would that be. Mariah? I am lost.

    I believe there were many people who never watched the show before or voted for the first time because they were encouraged to do so.

    There are so many terrific posts today, and I hope to catch up tomorrow. I will say that no matter how bad it is right now, it would have been much worse if Danny had won! As an Anoop fan, I can take Kris winning just a bit easier. Although, I recognize the wonderful talent that Adam has.

    I wish them both the best! Take care everyone!

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  72. Congratulations to Kris on winning the competition. He is a worthy winner and good luck to him. I would have been happy with any of Kris, Adam or Allison taking the title.

    I can’t believe that so many people here thought that this was Adam’s competition to lose. Yes, for me he was clearly the standout contestant this year and globally has brought more attention to AI than any other contestant in the past. But he was a polarising contestant. His style provokes stronger reactions and therefore there are going to be many people who actively dislike him as well as are enraptured by him – and that’s before his sexuality even enters the equation. Both he and Kris showed themselves to be wonderful people with a mutual love and respect. If they make the right career decisions there is no doubt that they are both going to enjoy spectacularly successful careers.

    Just glad that Hokey Gokey and his hateful twitter-posting pastor didn’t win.

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  73. Mindy,

    Truly, I am sorry if you felt my post was intended for you, or was meant to include you in any fashion. Disagree at times though we might have, you have always conducted yourself with class, elegance, and grace while posting here, and my frustrations were in no way directed at you. If I hurt your feelings, I am TRULY sorry. As I think I pointed out here once, I have always felt your posts are very well thought out and brilliantly written, and never, in any way, have I seen you or your posts in any light but a positive one.

    Erin: GREAT POST, and thank you so much. This is a small snippet of something I posted in another topic here that falls in line with what you posted:

    Adam has a massive voice. There were times he tempered it, and gave us beautiful, stirring moments, and there were times he “overused” it, and put on a show for us instead of singing for us. It is those times that may cost him the win.

    Jeanne: What, was I shouting? :-)

    I also want to take the time to thank MasterClassLady for “understanding” (even though you never indicated so, I know you understood) the basis behind many of my posts, and for seeing that there was some validity in them. Even thought others may have seen them as controversial, you did not. You saw them for what they were, and I know it would have been easier for you to just say, “I’m not going to let you post,” but you did not do that. For those things, I want to thank you and want you to know that I appreciate both you, and what you did.

    “See you all next season!”

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  74. “His style provokes stronger reactions and therefore there are going to be many people who actively dislike him as well as are enraptured by him – and that’s before his sexuality even enters the equation.”

    Thank you for distilling into one sentence what it took me approximately 900 paragraphs to say, rama. LOL. And thanks, J!

    You know, all of this talk about Adam being an international superstar worries me. Not that I don’t think he can become one — quite the opposite. I’m just afraid that people (and especially the media) are putting unrealistic expectations on him when we don’t even really know what kind of music Adam is going to release yet.

    That’s another reason I think Adam didn’t win, actually; the styles of music he chose to perform on the show are NOT what sells with mainstream America. Randy told him that he should make a rock record after Adam killed “Whole Lotta Love.” And yes, he was fantastic singing Led Zep, but we’re talking about a band that got their start 40 years ago.

    Glam-rock hasn’t been popular in ages, and I can’t imagine Adam singing the type of rock music that’s on today’s charts. Rock stations won’t touch an Idol contestant (all of Chris Daughtry’s airplay is on Top 40 and Hot AC stations), and if Adam goes too much in any extreme it won’t get played on Top 40 stations either. And the Nine Inch Nails comparisons that Randy and Kara made are so far off-the-mark I have to wonder if they’ve ever even heard a NIN song other than “Closer.”

    This is not to slag on Adam but just to point out that what works well on the actual television show is not necessarily what will translate to superstardom and record sales (see: Hicks, Taylor). Bo Bice ran into this problem, too. He was an amazing contestant, but his niche was Allman Brothers-style Southern rock, and firmly rooted in the 1970s. Clive Davis knew that wouldn’t sell, so he wouldn’t let him have any artistic control and gave him an album of bland pop-rock that ended up as a failure both commercially and artistically. I don’t want the same thing to happen to Adam.

    Take the finale: Adam strapped on platform boots and a fabulous outfit and belted out a medley with KISS, complete with smoke machines and crazy lighting and pyrotechnics. Kris sang a nice country/pop song with Keith Urban. On the surface it seems obvious that Adam is the star, but when I thought about it a litle more…. KISS, today, is a complete nostalgia act. There’s absolutely nothing relevant about them. Contrast that with Kris, who seemed perfectly at home and (IMO) sounded better than Keith Urban, who’s one of the most successful country artists of the last decade. Adam was more exciting, but Kris was the one doing something that I could easily hear on the radio.

    Whether or not Adam DOES become that international superstar depends entirely on the strength and type of material that he releases. And I worry that 19E won’t know what to do with him, because if the best fit they could come up with for him on the finale was KISS and the judges bring up Nine Inch Nails apropos of nothing other than to sound hip (“Ring of Fire” wasn’t Johnny Cash as done by NIN; it was Johnny cash as done by Led Zeppelin with Jeff Buckley on lead vocals. Which — very cool, but not very marketable)…. yeah, I’m convinced that they have NO idea what to do with him.

    There are two ways (that I can think of, at least) Adam could go here that actually are modern and radio-friendly. The first would be in the direction of Muse, which would work great for anyone who was not a contestant on Idol. Like I’ve already said, rock stations don’t play Idol contestants. They just don’t.

    And so the other option I’m thinking of: Robbie Williams. Make this your mantra, 19E. Talk to him, his managers, every songwriter and producer who’s ever worked with him, his A&R people, his image consultants, everything. Go that route and Adam can rock out in that awesomely flamboyant way that he has (“Let Me Entertain You”), do danceable pop music, and still release gorgeous ballads (“Angels”) at the same time. Even if it doesn’t completely catch on with America, it would absolutely huge in Europe and we’d get the global superstar that Simon seems so intent on creating.

    Told y’all I think way too much about this stuff, didn’t I?

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  75. Erin, your posts make so much sense to me. I, too, had been concerned about what kind of music Adam would do after Idol. I sensed by reading the posts of people who adore him that they weren’t being very objective about this–they only saw that he was talented and nothing else mattered. I learned that lesson three years ago when I wasn’t objective about Taylor Hicks. At least he won, but the win didn’t especially help his career–Chris Daughtrey has been more successful and he wasn’t even in the top three. The bottom line is the fact that many of us get so emotionally wrapped up in Idol, but it doesn’t matter who wins.

    I was actually quite surprised to read an article this morning on a mainstream media site that said the vote for Idol wasn’t even close. But again, one of the problems with people who blog is that we tend to blog on sites where people agree with us. Although I know I was in a minority here, most people adored Adam so I thought that was most likely how many people felt. When you do that, you get a skewed view of what the viewing audience really thinks–and then it’s a shock when your favorite loses.

    And, Jeanne, your comments about conservatives/liberals have really made me do some serious thinking. I was raised by a father who was a bigot. And when I was eight years old, I made a remark that I had learned from my father, but was told by best friend’s adult sister that it wasn’t a nice thing to say. Before that, it had never occurred to me that there was anything wrong with it. That person has no idea how much she influenced my life and consequently I have no tolerance for bigotry. But in the last couple of days, I realized that I’m equally wrong for being so quick to judge conservative evangelicals who I perceive to be wrong for using their religion to promote intolerance. All of us are products of our environments to an extent, however, we all have the capacity to change. We just need to learn about the broader world instead of being so isolated in our own little corners. It’s an interesting thing to think about the ten or so Idol contestants coming together from all walks of life–small towns or urban areas, white or non-white, gay or straight. Hopefully by the time the Idol tour ends, they will all have learned to be more appreciate of each other’s differences.

    I was thinking about the comment that Michael Sarver supposedly made to Adam. Instead of judging Michael so harshly, perhaps I should be hoping that Adam’s gentle nature will actually teach Michael a lesson in tolerance–if, in fact, that was the way Michael meant it.

    And as for the comments from Adam’s brother about Danny, I still have a difficult time believing that Danny was really using his wife’s death to make money for his foundation/church. Danny may have beliefs different from mine, however, he went through a tragic experience of losing his young wife and I think people have judged him much too harshly in that area. But this is not an endorsement of his church, by any means. As for hearing that some members of his church dressed as drag queens and his minister wore black face to welcome him home, I can’t think of one way that could possibly be promoting Christian teachings.

    I actually think it was unfortunate that Adam’s brother blogged about these things. And, yes, I also think it’s unfortunate that some people are so intolerant of differences that they didn’t vote for Adam for that reason. Any time people vote for reasons other than just simply the kind of music/musicians they prefer, it is really unfortunate.

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  76. When did this become a red state/blue state kind of thing? Isn’t it supposed to be a singing contest? Seems to me there was a lot more involved than that. Yesterday on The View, Barbara Walters demonstrated her complete lack of cultural awareness. The idiot woman (aided and abetted by an equally clueless Joy Behar) actually said that Adam Lambert lost because he looks like someone who’d molest America’s virgin daughters. Then the whole Christian thing came up. Walters didn’t even know Adam was Jewish. She said he may have lost because he didn’t talk about his Christianity as much as Kris. Hello! Chris hardly mentioned his religion at all. That was Gokey. Besides – Adam can’t talk about following a religion he doesn’t profess.

    And here we are back to my point. When did this cease to be a singing contest? Clueless or not – Walters still morphed it into a political football. She may be right. Perhaps America did see some strange tropical bird of prey ready and willing to carry their daughters (and/or sons) off to a (sounds fun!) life of debauchery. If so – then buy me a ticket – ’cause I wanna ride on THAT plane! It SO reminds me of my own youth in the 70’s. Be careful! Robert Plant’s painted on jeans will corrupt you! Oh No! Alice Cooper’s out to convert you to Satanism!! Look at that Nazareth album cover! Oh – my eyes, my eyes!!! Please. I’m still here – my morals and my soul completely intact, thank you. But maybe people viewed Adam through that kind of lens. No matter where you look – old fogey-ism manages to rear its decrepit head!

    And I still say it should have remained a singing contest.

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  77. You’re absolutely right TFLS that Idol should have been nothing more than a singing contest. But unfortunately America is made up of an extremely diverse group of people with all sorts of beliefs and from what I’ve been reading, many people believe that these beliefs influenced the voting. I’d prefer to think that it was simply that more people preferred Kris’s style of performing to Adam’s style. But you can see when words like “gay,” “bi-sexual,” “church music directors” are descriptions of contestants that the ugly blue/red state thing will rear it’s ugly head.

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  78. Louise (did you know that’s my middle name?), I’m jumping up and down in my chair because you absolutely got it! “Capacity to change” is the whole point. We all have it — even the most “neanderthal” of us — and that’s what’s so exciting. And yes, that’s why it is important, if you’re attacked, to meet negative feelings with positive ones. Negative feelings + negative feelings = more negative feelings. Negative feelings + positive feelings = peace. Only by seeing love modelled by someone else do people who are held captive by negative feelings learn to break free.

    So, yes — if someone like Michael Sarver (in this “hypothetical” instance) said something hateful to another person, but that person modelled love in response — well, wouldn’t that get your attention? “I’m being as mean as I know how to be, and yet they are acting as if I’m really a nice person — what do I do with that?” Now you’ve entered an area where change is possible. It may take years for that seed to bear fruit, but you’ve planted a seed.

    And I agree, I’m disappointed that Neil blogged about it as well. It involved only Adam, Michael, whoever else was in the room when it happened, and Neil, since Adam chose to turn to him for consolation. The rest of us — we don’t know ANY of these people personally! Watching them on a tv show does not constitute “knowing” them, and only those directly and personally affected by a circumstance should know the details. It is between them, not between “us” and the “bad guy.” Because, remember, who the “bad guy” is all depends on where you’re standing.

    Personally, I would hate to be judged solely for one of the stupid things I’ve done/said in my life. I’d like to believe that I have the “capacity to change” and learn from my errors. And that there are some good things about me that offset my stupid choices.

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  79. Jeanne, (what a coincidence–Louise is actually my middle name too–I just chose to use it as my blogging name!)
    I’m glad I made you jump up and down! Thanks again for another insightful post. When I read your posts, I always feel very connected to what you write.

    It was such a good point to make that we don’t know any of these people personally–that’s why it’s so hard for me to understand how viewers think they know any of them well enough to have such strong negative feelings about any of them. I actually intended to watch them on Larry King last night because sometimes you can see a little different side of people when he interviews them, however, I forgot to TIVO it and I fell asleep and missed it! I hope I remember to catch the Monday night show.

    I hope you have a good weekend.

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  80. And here we are back to my point. When did this cease to be a singing contest?

    I believe the religion issue became prominent in Season 5. Prior to that I don’t recall participants posting a lot of religious conversation. According to Wikipedia:

    Mandisa Hundley was voted out after country week, whereby her rendition of “Any Man of Mine” was not well received as a good song choice. The reason behind her elimination was speculated to be what she said before she began to sing her rendition of “Shackles (Praise You)” by Mary Mary: “This song goes out to everybody that wants to be free. Your addiction, lifestyle and situation may be big, but God is bigger.” Many viewers believed that the “lifestyle” stated was regarding the homosexual lifestyle, which she denied, clarifying that the lifestyle she was referring to was her lifestyle of addiction to food.

    The AI Forums were fueled with talk about Mandisa trying to force her religion upon the viewers. Some were quite hateful towards her. People debated this issue from a variety of viewpoints. She has a beautiful voice and I believed could have gone farther in the competition.

    Erin, I like your great ideas of how to market Adam. It makes sense to follow up with concepts geared towards success. I believe your suggestions should be sent to his brother!

    Louise, I believe the Larry King Show (with Ryan as host) will be repeated this weekend.

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  81. Before anyone gets too riled up about Mandisa being voted off for religious reasons, let’s all remember that she wore jeans on her last performance, and there were plenty of people who thought she was voted off for weight reasons. Not that that’s an appropriate reason in a singing competition, but you just can’t mandate what should be important to voters. Thankfully, it’s a free country, and you can vote for whatever matters to you at the time of the vote.

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  82. Thanks, Kariann1. I really do think that both Adam and Kris have the potential to be enormously successful, but all of that hinges on the material that they’re given. I say “given” because Idol alums’ first albums — the ones who make top 2, anyway — are notoriously tightly-controlled. Even when they’re allowed to have a little bit of songwriting input, i.e. David Cook, the albums are mostly written and put together by other people while the Idols do their summer tour.

    But yeah, get Robbie Williams (I looked it up and discovered that he does in fact write a lot of his material), Guy Chambers, and Max Martin to write for Adam. As for Kris, I think Butch Walker, Gavin DeGraw, and Jason Mraz could give him some fantastic hit-worthy material. I’m crossing my fingers for both of them because I don’t want them to be saddled with generic pop that’s ill-suited for them and won’t translate to commercial success.

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  83. Alright everyone. Let’s put the Danny/Michael vs. Adam negative comments to rest.

    If you support Adam – then let’s talk about all the wonderful things that the future has in store for him. The same for Kris, for Danny and all of the other singers.

    What’s done is done, what has been said has been said and this issue will never be resolved through commentary on this site.

    Let’s get back to the reason why this site was created, to celebrate singers at every level and of every genre in a positive and supportive manner.

    Thank you so much!

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  84. Katherinesmom May 23, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    MCL: a technical question- Why do so many of the Idols sound just a tad behind the music? Is it a tv production thing? Just wondering…

    For one thing, I wish the Results program would focus a bit less on the “stars”. I’d like to hear ALL the finalists sing a song or duet. And the ridiculous Idol awards- not funny, in my opinion. More singing (and not by the likes of Bikini girl). Kara rocked! (And she looks great in a bikini- got to give her props for that.) And Simon could be professional enough to at least look pleasant. I’m sorry but he’s paid big bucks to do this job. At least be respectful to the winner at this point, even if it’s not your preference.

    Yay for Kris, Adam, Danny, Allison, and the rest. I wish I could see them on tour.

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  85. I’m not MCL, Katherinesmom, but I think a lot of the slightly-behind-the-beat thing that you saw (espcially in the Final 3, Final 2, and Finale shows) has more to do with a lack of rehearsal time than anything else. Their schedules get busier, they have more songs to perform and less time to practice them. For instance, Kris and Adam only found out they’d perform with Queen the night before the finale and were only able to run through the song twice. I’d imagine a lot of the finale practice was similarly rushed.

    If you’re less-rehearsed, you’re a LOT more likely to fall behind the music when you sing, especially on up-tempo songs where you really have to work to keep up with the beat. A lot of it’s a confidence issue, too.

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  86. Last night on Larry King’s show, Adam spoke about the one time when he had a stress attack. He said it was on Tuesday, the day of the finale. He spoke about having to learn the new coronation song and the producer’s pick. Then he mentioned the sound issues being in the Nokia theater. He said that everyone was used to the old sound stage and the new, much larger venue created some additional problems for them

    I just thought that might have been part of the issue with the singers being a little behind the beat. I don’t think the other idols had a lot of rehearsal time in the Nokia theater either.

    I was interested in Erin’s comment about Adam and Kris only finding out that they would perform with Queen the night before. It was amazing that it turned out as good as it did.

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